WTF? I’m not sure how the rest of America feels about this debate, but I personally am sick to death of people like (closet moonbat) Bill O’Reilly linking ‘enhanced interrogation’ (come on Bill, you can say torture) with results. There IS NO debate. Americans need to get their heads in the game properly and start asking the right questions. Since WHEN has it been A-okay for America to torture people? End the question right there! Does this thinking and behavior not fall under the insane, communist Saul Alinsky philosophy that states ‘the ends justify the means‘. Take a moment and really ask yourself, “Has my moral compass been compromised by societal norms?”
When did America sink to the level of common drug lord tactics? No wonder everybody is pissed at us. We were supposed to be the ‘Great experiment’ that was a beacon of hope for the rest of the world demonstrating what could be achieved by taking the high road and living by the Rule of Law. Individual Americans may or may not still believe the basic tenets of what has made our country great, but our government has been walking all over us and the rest of the world for DECADES. It all comes back to us changing how we think, believe, and behave.
Maybe it is true that the ‘Age of America’ is now over, that it truly did end in the late 1800’s, and all we can look forward to now is Chinese style state capitalism and repression from here on out. If it is permissible for our government to use torture techniques on human beings that they have named as terrorists, when will it be permissible for them to do the same thing to you and I? Welcome to the slippery slope; we’ve been sliding for years.
Bill O’Reilly talking to one of my least favorite humans, Donald “What Is Building 7?” Rumsfeld about torture, how Rumsfeld does not believe waterboarding is torture, and that it was only done by the CIA and not the military. How does any of that make it okay? (…frakkin’ idiot)
Having been exposed to the military for three years, my opinion will of course differ from most regarding the treatment of enemies.
The Muslims are without a doubt are the most barbaric, murdering, thieving, inhumane scumbags in the history of the world.
To date, it has been written that throughout their history they have slaughtered 270,000,000 people in the name of Islam.
Showing mercy and compassion for Muslims is a complete waste of time, because given the chance they will cut our heads off with little regard for civility or the rules of engagement.
Sometimes as cruel as it sounds, to defeat an enemy, you must become the enemy.
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer.
Fiasco40 on May 5, 2011 at 7:02 am
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, and my ‘moral compass’ is working fine, thank you. As for Saul Alinsky tactics, well, sometimes you have to get down in the mud with ’em and fight ’em on terms they understand. There is no Marquis of Queensbury in a barroom brawl. I’d waterboard my own grandmother if I thought it would save other American lives, especially our Servicemen and women. I would recommend reading ‘Rules For Radical Conservatives’ by David Kahane. He spells it out rather nicely.
I understand your point, but are you saying that it’s okay to have ‘state sponsored torture’? I’m not talking about man to man or under battlefield conditions where command needs to make a decision on the spot. I’m talking about it being government sanctioned on prisoners of war sitting in Gitmo or wherever else and America stating that this is a value as a nation that we believe in and uphold. Are you ready to say that because they do it, it’s okay for us?
red lemur on May 5, 2011 at 8:56 am
I’m missing the days when you knew your enemy ,went and found them and killed them . miranda my balls!
Leaping Spark on May 5, 2011 at 11:08 am
Lemur is once again short and to the point. When America targeted an ememy and proceeded to kick their a%^es by any means necessary, we won the wars.
Now we fight wars with limited rules of engagement to make the idiotic liberals happy, and lose all of them.
Now we fight wars with limited rules of engagement to make the idiotic liberals happy, and lose all of them.
More like we have limited rules of engagement because the globalists know this will divide us.
red lemur on May 5, 2011 at 2:39 pm
well, after watchin the spin I must say ive mixxed feelings, leaping spark is right this is a tough issue. Did waterboarding work? probably. And I would not want ANY extra American casualty’s. However, torture? isn’t this reserved for Nazis and commie Chinese and other bad guys? remember when America did not kill women and children and did not torture? Well I do and it was a better place than it is now! This is too slippery a slope , we America we dont assassinate we dont torture, we dont murder. When we do will we become what we hate? at the same time, if I was in charge in the field, and I caught terrorists I would probably do a lot worse than waterboard their sorry asses! yup it’s a toughy!
I don’t know about torture, but we as a country have come a LONG way from the days and the wars of the past. Ask any survivor or relative of a survivor of the firebombing of Dresden or Hamburg, Germany during WWII, when indiscriminate fire-bombing by the RAF and the USAAC killed an estimated 80,000 civilians. Yeah, the current rules of engagement are ridiculous, I totally agree, but to rain fire and terror on a civilian populace is wrong to the nth degree. However, a captured enemy combatant is a different matter. And as far as torture is concerned, take your pick: waterboarding or jumper cables attached to your testicles and a car battery. I think I’d prefer the former if I had my ‘druthers’.
No, I don’t believe in ‘state sponsored torture’; however, with that being said, I DO believe that we have to leave ourselves a little moral ‘wiggle room’ on this issue; and I DO appreciate how that sentiment must sound. My dad taught me to avoid a fight if at all possible; BUT, if unavoidable, and THEY pick up a 2×4, you can bet your ass I’m gonna pick one up too!
I agree that if someone starts a fight, then, by all means, finish it. What I’m talking about is capturing terrorists, reading them miranda rights that DO NOT apply to them, transferring them to a prison (Gitmo), then possibly sending them to another country for torture (rendition) and then running around saying that ‘we don’t torture’, and ‘we are the beacon of hope’ for the world when our government is pulling shenanigans all the time and interfering with other countries. When WAS the last time our Congress actually declared a war instead of all of these ‘police actions’ and ‘kinetic military operations’? When is the shit gonna stop? When we, as the American public, DECIDE what our values are NOW and stand by them. Then FIND Americans that stand by their words with actions and get those people elected instead of ‘shopping’ for a frakkin’ candidate from what the ‘leadership’ of both parties and the freakin’ globalists decide we should be able to choose from.
Leaping Spark on May 6, 2011 at 5:14 am
There is an easy solution, get the information you need on the battlefield, and then make them disappear.
This way we won’t have to fight them again after Buttcrack Owebama and his worthless sycophant Holder turn them loose. It is a known fact that 85% of these scumbags return to the battlefield to kill more Americans.
The Communist NWO and the Muslims are a formidable foe, and if they succeed in their quest for world domination don’t expect any mercy or civility from either group as together they have slaughter in excess of 400,000,000 people.
As you can see from their history playing nice with either of these groups only leads to disasters of major proportions in the terms of lost human life.
America needs to wake up, take off her gloves, roll up her sleeves, and open a major can of whoop ass on all these bastards, not apologize to them!
Having been exposed to the military for three years, my opinion will of course differ from most regarding the treatment of enemies.
The Muslims are without a doubt are the most barbaric, murdering, thieving, inhumane scumbags in the history of the world.
To date, it has been written that throughout their history they have slaughtered 270,000,000 people in the name of Islam.
Showing mercy and compassion for Muslims is a complete waste of time, because given the chance they will cut our heads off with little regard for civility or the rules of engagement.
Sometimes as cruel as it sounds, to defeat an enemy, you must become the enemy.
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, and my ‘moral compass’ is working fine, thank you. As for Saul Alinsky tactics, well, sometimes you have to get down in the mud with ’em and fight ’em on terms they understand. There is no Marquis of Queensbury in a barroom brawl. I’d waterboard my own grandmother if I thought it would save other American lives, especially our Servicemen and women. I would recommend reading ‘Rules For Radical Conservatives’ by David Kahane. He spells it out rather nicely.
I understand your point, but are you saying that it’s okay to have ‘state sponsored torture’? I’m not talking about man to man or under battlefield conditions where command needs to make a decision on the spot. I’m talking about it being government sanctioned on prisoners of war sitting in Gitmo or wherever else and America stating that this is a value as a nation that we believe in and uphold. Are you ready to say that because they do it, it’s okay for us?
I’m missing the days when you knew your enemy ,went and found them and killed them . miranda my balls!
Lemur is once again short and to the point. When America targeted an ememy and proceeded to kick their a%^es by any means necessary, we won the wars.
Now we fight wars with limited rules of engagement to make the idiotic liberals happy, and lose all of them.
WTF
More like we have limited rules of engagement because the globalists know this will divide us.
well, after watchin the spin I must say ive mixxed feelings, leaping spark is right this is a tough issue. Did waterboarding work? probably. And I would not want ANY extra American casualty’s. However, torture? isn’t this reserved for Nazis and commie Chinese and other bad guys? remember when America did not kill women and children and did not torture? Well I do and it was a better place than it is now! This is too slippery a slope , we America we dont assassinate we dont torture, we dont murder. When we do will we become what we hate?
at the same time, if I was in charge in the field, and I caught terrorists I would probably do a lot worse than waterboard their sorry asses! yup it’s a toughy!
Love that image!!
I don’t know about torture, but we as a country have come a LONG way from the days and the wars of the past. Ask any survivor or relative of a survivor of the firebombing of Dresden or Hamburg, Germany during WWII, when indiscriminate fire-bombing by the RAF and the USAAC killed an estimated 80,000 civilians. Yeah, the current rules of engagement are ridiculous, I totally agree, but to rain fire and terror on a civilian populace is wrong to the nth degree. However, a captured enemy combatant is a different matter. And as far as torture is concerned, take your pick: waterboarding or jumper cables attached to your testicles and a car battery. I think I’d prefer the former if I had my ‘druthers’.
No, I don’t believe in ‘state sponsored torture’; however, with that being said, I DO believe that we have to leave ourselves a little moral ‘wiggle room’ on this issue; and I DO appreciate how that sentiment must sound. My dad taught me to avoid a fight if at all possible; BUT, if unavoidable, and THEY pick up a 2×4, you can bet your ass I’m gonna pick one up too!
I agree that if someone starts a fight, then, by all means, finish it. What I’m talking about is capturing terrorists, reading them miranda rights that DO NOT apply to them, transferring them to a prison (Gitmo), then possibly sending them to another country for torture (rendition) and then running around saying that ‘we don’t torture’, and ‘we are the beacon of hope’ for the world when our government is pulling shenanigans all the time and interfering with other countries. When WAS the last time our Congress actually declared a war instead of all of these ‘police actions’ and ‘kinetic military operations’? When is the shit gonna stop? When we, as the American public, DECIDE what our values are NOW and stand by them. Then FIND Americans that stand by their words with actions and get those people elected instead of ‘shopping’ for a frakkin’ candidate from what the ‘leadership’ of both parties and the freakin’ globalists decide we should be able to choose from.
There is an easy solution, get the information you need on the battlefield, and then make them disappear.
This way we won’t have to fight them again after Buttcrack Owebama and his worthless sycophant Holder turn them loose. It is a known fact that 85% of these scumbags return to the battlefield to kill more Americans.
The Communist NWO and the Muslims are a formidable foe, and if they succeed in their quest for world domination don’t expect any mercy or civility from either group as together they have slaughter in excess of 400,000,000 people.
As you can see from their history playing nice with either of these groups only leads to disasters of major proportions in the terms of lost human life.
America needs to wake up, take off her gloves, roll up her sleeves, and open a major can of whoop ass on all these bastards, not apologize to them!
Here, here.
here, here!