If I have to listen to one more conservative talk radio host and/or conservative guest talk about the birth certificate as a ‘right-wing conspiracy’ (Sean Hannity/Sarah Palin) in regards to Barry’s ‘paste my birth certificate to my forehead’ comment, I think I may just have to start drinking again! Chairman ‘the international bankers and the UN own my playboy a**’ Zero keeps bringing it up to make everybody ‘look at the right hand’ while he is bitch-slapping you with the left. It doesn’t matter where he was born, HE ISN’T ELIGIBLE TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
When Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. (?) was born on August 4, 1961, his mother was an American citizen and his father was a BRITISH SUBJECT giving the guy running our country right off the rails dual citizenship as a BRITISH SUBJECT and an American Citizen. We don’t even have to go into his move to Indonesia and supposed adoption by an Indonesian citizen. Stop! Do not pass GO; do not collect the White House!
Obama states he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. If that is the case, he was then both an American citizen and a British citizen at birth because his father was a citizen of the protectorate of British East Africa. Because the region had, in 1961, not yet declared its independence from Great Britain, Obama was, like his father, a British citizen under Section 32(1) of the British Nationality Act of 1948. Both Obama, Sr. and Obama, Jr. then automatically became citizens of Kenya when that independent nation was formed in 1963. Obama’s British/Kenyan citizenship automatically expired when he turned age 21, but he was born with dual citizenship and split loyalties, and thus was arguably not a natural born citizen of the United States. [219, 258, 492, 549]
Bambi was a British Subject at birth; freakin’ case closed! As for being a muslim; who freakin’ cares? Isn’t what he has done to our Constitution, our liberties, our healthcare, our economy, our banks, our car companies, and our border security enough? Do you seriously think that Obama as a muslim is more dangerous than Obama as a MARXIST REVOLUTIONARY with a democratic majority in the House and dozens of Czars? SERIOUSLY?
Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Citizen status. That holds for current dual citizens, and it holds even more for former dual citizens.
The writers of the Constitution did not believe in divided loyalties. They believed that a person could have only one loyalty, to the country where he was born. This is what Blackstone thought, and so did Madison. He said:
“It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.’
As you can see, there is only one criterion of allegiance, the place where a person was born. Obama was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows, and the facts on that document were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii and the Republican governor of Hawaii.
GG – let them run their mouths; they are allowed to be as angry as we are at their leadership. Worse for them – they get to feel the betrayal now. Maybe some of them will do an Ichabod Crane and join us in saving the Republic from the shadow players running our politicians.
It is so hard and believe me I have tried to understand why so few will even discuss this issue.
I have heard the stories, there is a threat being held over America if Obama is exposed, really any worse than the threat he already is to America.
Then there are those who did not vet him and now do not know how to admit to it so they still go along.
But the one that scares me the most is that everyone of them are in on it somehow are another. If this is true than we have those who seem to fighting the good fight that are really only willing to go so far, the controlled opposition. I hope this one does not be proven to be so.
ashland on August 31, 2010 at 10:32 am
What do you mean “exposed?” The fact that Obama was a dual citizen at the time of birth was well known. There was a campaign by birthers and two-fers to get the members of the Electoral College to change their votes, and NOT ONE DID.
There is an obvious reason. It is because dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born citizen status. It is even possible to be a Natural Born Citizen of two countries, as this ruling from the Army’s Judge Advocate General (JAG) office shows:
The reason is simple, neither law affects the other. The policy of the USA has always been that a foreign citizenship law means NOTHING, only our citizenship law counts.
But perhaps, you may say, the foreign law would apply when the father was not a citizen of the USA. that is not true either. The original meaning of the term Natural Born was simply “born in the country.” It never was used by Americans at the time of the Constitution to mean “two citizen parents.”
Yes, Vattel, a Swiss philosopher, apparently did believe that some category of citizen which he called an “indigines” requires two citizen parents. But Vattel recommended a lot of things that the Constitution did not adopt, such as a state religion, and so there would have to be evidence that the writers of the Constitution adopted Vattel’s two-citizen idea, and there is no evidence at all. John Jay, who used the phrase Natural Born Citizen in a letter to Washington, can be shown to have used the phrase Natural Born the way that all the other Americans at the time did, which was “born in the country.”
RT @LogisticMonster: AYFKM? It’s NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion via Logistics Monster – If I have to listen … http://tinyurl.com/3xermh3
Leaping Spark on August 31, 2010 at 3:24 pm
If Obama was born in America why doesn’t he put this birth issue to rest and produce his long form birth certificate. Why has he spent millions to hide his past from America. The explanation is very simple, he is a liar, a fraud, and not an American. He is a puppet being used by the likes of Putin, Soros and every other communist scumbag to destroy America by circumventing, marginalizing, and destroying our constitution. The Republicans and Democrats on capital hill seem content to allow this illegal communist Kenyan to stay in our whitehouse even though they know he isn’t eligible to be president of anything more then a car wash.
drkate on August 31, 2010 at 4:43 pm
And I’d never let him touch my car!
Misprision of felony–its what’s for dinner, Congress.
Birth Certificate AYFKM? It's NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion …: If I have to listen to one more… http://bit.ly/b0bto7
ashland on September 1, 2010 at 3:30 am
(Editor’s Note to Regular Monster Readers: After you read this comment, you will know who you are dealing with and I respectfully ask readers to not respond to the blatant emotional prodding. Mahalo!)
Re: “If Obama was born in America why doesn’t he put this birth issue to rest and produce his long form birth certificate. Why has he spent millions to hide his past from America. ”
Answer: Obama has already published the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii. The current official birth certificate is used by thousands of people every year. The “Birther Bill,” the draft legislation sponsored by about seven Republicans in Congress that calls for future presidential candidates to prove their place of birth, calls for them to show their OFFICIAL birth certificate, not their original birth certificate.
So, the Certification of Live Birth, which by the way was not forged (Only two guys who will not give their real names have claimed that it was. The McCain campaign looked into the allegation of forgery and found it false), is the official birth certificate. Hence it is sufficient. ‘
The allegations that “anyone could get a Hawaiian birth certificate” are also false. That is because Hawaii does not allow a birth document of any kind to be issued saying that the person was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the person was born in Hawaii. Obama’s says “born in Hawaii,” and that is the fact that the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice, and most recently the governor of Hawaii has too.
But there is another reason why Obama does not show the original long-form birth certificate, another reason in addition to the OFFICIAL birth certificate being sufficient, and that is that Hawii does not send out the original anymore. It has not sent it out since 2001. What Hawaii sent to Obama in 2007 was the Certification, the official birth certificate that it sends to everyone. Even if Obama were to ask for his original birth certificate, it is doubtful that Hawaii would provide it because its policy is not to send out copies of the original anymore. (It might provide, but then again, it might not, and in any case the Certification is official and so it is sufficient.)
Re the claim of ‘millions spent.” That is all made up. There was never a lawsuit against Obama for his birth certificate or for documents. The vast bulk of the money you are referring to was spent defending the numerous lawsuits that tried to stop the election in November 2008. Then there were lawsuits to stop the Electoral College from voting and to stop the Congress from certifying the election and to stop the Inauguration. The few other lawsuits asked that the courts declare that Obama was not eligible to be president. They did not request documents be provided to the court. They claimed that because Obama had not provided the documents, the court should rule that he was not eligible.
But, since the cases claimed that Obama had not shown such things as his kindergarten records (which probably do not exist anymore) or the places where he lived while he was at college or his parents’ marriage license, that is simply silly. In our country, you have to defend against every lawsuit, no matter how stupid.
Re: “Kenyan.” Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. Obama’s Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. That was made up by birthers, who did it by cutting the tape just before she answered the question “Where was he born?” She said in reply to that question “America, Hawaii” and repeated it several times after that, and in another interview she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.
You said: “Madison. He said: ‘It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.”’
Madison’s definition only applies to the requirement to be a Congressman which is what William Smith wanted to be in 1789. That requirement is “citizen of the United States,” not “natural born Citizen.”
ashland1 on September 1, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Sorry, Mario, you are wrong. Although Madison was discussing the requirements to be a congressman, his statement was about ALLEGIANCE, about what the criterion for allegiance. Madison said that there is only one, and it is the place of birth, not the parents.
What makes you think that there is a different criterion for Natural Born Citizen than there is for allegiance? What makes you think that the criterion is the Vattel two-parent theory and not the common use of Natural Born, which was always used by Americans at the time to mean “born in the country” and never used by them to mean “two citizen parents?”
I posted a thread with a few words from Logistics Monster and a link to Don Fredrickson’s website. The bedwetting kool-aide drinking bamabots would not discuss this, but rather acused me of illegally posting the works of Don. Says a lot about some folks’ mental skills, or lack there of!
Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Citizen status. That holds for current dual citizens, and it holds even more for former dual citizens.
The writers of the Constitution did not believe in divided loyalties. They believed that a person could have only one loyalty, to the country where he was born. This is what Blackstone thought, and so did Madison. He said:
“It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.’
As you can see, there is only one criterion of allegiance, the place where a person was born. Obama was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows, and the facts on that document were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii and the Republican governor of Hawaii.
Read this site, asshat. You’re not worth the time to explain it to again.
GG – let them run their mouths; they are allowed to be as angry as we are at their leadership. Worse for them – they get to feel the betrayal now. Maybe some of them will do an Ichabod Crane and join us in saving the Republic from the shadow players running our politicians.
http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/turning-the-tables/
It is so hard and believe me I have tried to understand why so few will even discuss this issue.
I have heard the stories, there is a threat being held over America if Obama is exposed, really any worse than the threat he already is to America.
Then there are those who did not vet him and now do not know how to admit to it so they still go along.
But the one that scares me the most is that everyone of them are in on it somehow are another. If this is true than we have those who seem to fighting the good fight that are really only willing to go so far, the controlled opposition. I hope this one does not be proven to be so.
What do you mean “exposed?” The fact that Obama was a dual citizen at the time of birth was well known. There was a campaign by birthers and two-fers to get the members of the Electoral College to change their votes, and NOT ONE DID.
There is an obvious reason. It is because dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born citizen status. It is even possible to be a Natural Born Citizen of two countries, as this ruling from the Army’s Judge Advocate General (JAG) office shows:
(http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/opinions-of-the-judge-advocate-general-of-the-army-volume-2/)
The reason is simple, neither law affects the other. The policy of the USA has always been that a foreign citizenship law means NOTHING, only our citizenship law counts.
But perhaps, you may say, the foreign law would apply when the father was not a citizen of the USA. that is not true either. The original meaning of the term Natural Born was simply “born in the country.” It never was used by Americans at the time of the Constitution to mean “two citizen parents.”
Yes, Vattel, a Swiss philosopher, apparently did believe that some category of citizen which he called an “indigines” requires two citizen parents. But Vattel recommended a lot of things that the Constitution did not adopt, such as a state religion, and so there would have to be evidence that the writers of the Constitution adopted Vattel’s two-citizen idea, and there is no evidence at all. John Jay, who used the phrase Natural Born Citizen in a letter to Washington, can be shown to have used the phrase Natural Born the way that all the other Americans at the time did, which was “born in the country.”
RT @LogisticMonster AYFKM? It’s NOT About The Birth Certificate.. http://bit.ly/crjn7p #Barack #Obama #Birth #Certificate #Fascism #Faith
AYFKM? It’s NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion via Logistics Monster – If I have to listen … http://tinyurl.com/3xermh3
RT @LogisticMonster: AYFKM? It’s NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion via Logistics Monster – If I have to listen … http://tinyurl.com/3xermh3
If Obama was born in America why doesn’t he put this birth issue to rest and produce his long form birth certificate. Why has he spent millions to hide his past from America. The explanation is very simple, he is a liar, a fraud, and not an American. He is a puppet being used by the likes of Putin, Soros and every other communist scumbag to destroy America by circumventing, marginalizing, and destroying our constitution. The Republicans and Democrats on capital hill seem content to allow this illegal communist Kenyan to stay in our whitehouse even though they know he isn’t eligible to be president of anything more then a car wash.
And I’d never let him touch my car!
Misprision of felony–its what’s for dinner, Congress.
Doc,
I laughed my butt off at the statement – so true, so true.
BLOG: #tcot #nra AYFKM? It’s NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion http://dlvr.it/4Vnkq #teaparty #tlot #rs #palin12 #spwbt #sgp
Birth Certificate AYFKM? It's NOT About The Birth Certificate or The Religion …: If I have to listen to one more… http://bit.ly/b0bto7
(Editor’s Note to Regular Monster Readers: After you read this comment, you will know who you are dealing with and I respectfully ask readers to not respond to the blatant emotional prodding. Mahalo!)
Re: “If Obama was born in America why doesn’t he put this birth issue to rest and produce his long form birth certificate. Why has he spent millions to hide his past from America. ”
Answer: Obama has already published the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii. The current official birth certificate is used by thousands of people every year. The “Birther Bill,” the draft legislation sponsored by about seven Republicans in Congress that calls for future presidential candidates to prove their place of birth, calls for them to show their OFFICIAL birth certificate, not their original birth certificate.
So, the Certification of Live Birth, which by the way was not forged (Only two guys who will not give their real names have claimed that it was. The McCain campaign looked into the allegation of forgery and found it false), is the official birth certificate. Hence it is sufficient. ‘
The allegations that “anyone could get a Hawaiian birth certificate” are also false. That is because Hawaii does not allow a birth document of any kind to be issued saying that the person was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the person was born in Hawaii. Obama’s says “born in Hawaii,” and that is the fact that the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice, and most recently the governor of Hawaii has too.
But there is another reason why Obama does not show the original long-form birth certificate, another reason in addition to the OFFICIAL birth certificate being sufficient, and that is that Hawii does not send out the original anymore. It has not sent it out since 2001. What Hawaii sent to Obama in 2007 was the Certification, the official birth certificate that it sends to everyone. Even if Obama were to ask for his original birth certificate, it is doubtful that Hawaii would provide it because its policy is not to send out copies of the original anymore. (It might provide, but then again, it might not, and in any case the Certification is official and so it is sufficient.)
Re the claim of ‘millions spent.” That is all made up. There was never a lawsuit against Obama for his birth certificate or for documents. The vast bulk of the money you are referring to was spent defending the numerous lawsuits that tried to stop the election in November 2008. Then there were lawsuits to stop the Electoral College from voting and to stop the Congress from certifying the election and to stop the Inauguration. The few other lawsuits asked that the courts declare that Obama was not eligible to be president. They did not request documents be provided to the court. They claimed that because Obama had not provided the documents, the court should rule that he was not eligible.
But, since the cases claimed that Obama had not shown such things as his kindergarten records (which probably do not exist anymore) or the places where he lived while he was at college or his parents’ marriage license, that is simply silly. In our country, you have to defend against every lawsuit, no matter how stupid.
Re: “Kenyan.” Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows. Obama’s Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. That was made up by birthers, who did it by cutting the tape just before she answered the question “Where was he born?” She said in reply to that question “America, Hawaii” and repeated it several times after that, and in another interview she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.
Ashland,
You said: “Madison. He said:
‘It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.”’
Madison’s definition only applies to the requirement to be a Congressman which is what William Smith wanted to be in 1789. That requirement is “citizen of the United States,” not “natural born Citizen.”
Sorry, Mario, you are wrong. Although Madison was discussing the requirements to be a congressman, his statement was about ALLEGIANCE, about what the criterion for allegiance. Madison said that there is only one, and it is the place of birth, not the parents.
What makes you think that there is a different criterion for Natural Born Citizen than there is for allegiance? What makes you think that the criterion is the Vattel two-parent theory and not the common use of Natural Born, which was always used by Americans at the time to mean “born in the country” and never used by them to mean “two citizen parents?”
Mario – entertained yet? 😉
RT @LogisticMonster AYFKM? It’s NOT About The B.. http://bit.ly/crjn7p #Barack #Obama #Birth #Certificate #Fascism #Faith
I guess there is no known cure for liberalism, they still swallow Obama’s lies hook, line, and sinker.
Hey Ashland, I can get you a great deal on the Grand Canyon!
hey ashland – go fuck yourself, and please drink the koolaid somewhere else! The adults are trying to talk! On a happier note; tiny horse! 😉
I posted a thread with a few words from Logistics Monster and a link to Don Fredrickson’s website. The bedwetting kool-aide drinking bamabots would not discuss this, but rather acused me of illegally posting the works of Don. Says a lot about some folks’ mental skills, or lack there of!
Imagine that?!